Tina Kakadelis
“Space. The final frontier.” For decades, Star Trek‘s opening lines have inspired people to look up to the stars and wonder what worlds and stories exist up there. Viewers have been treated to the exploits of characters like Kirk, Spock, Uhura, Picard, and so many more since 1966. One of the current series in the universe is Star Trek: Prodigy and one of the characters is Lieutenant Commander Doctor Erin, who teaches Temporal Mechanics at the Starfleet Academy. Doctor Erin is modeled after, named for, and voiced by real-life Dr. Erin Macdonald, who holds a Ph.D. from the University of Glasgow in general relativity.
Since 2019, Dr. Macdonald has worked as the official science advisor for the Star Trek franchise. She wrote baby board book Star Trek: My First Book of Space, wrote and hosted the Science of Star Trek for Paramount+, served as the science advisor for Space Cadet, and somehow also finds the time to produce films with her production company, Spacetime Productions. Known as “The Julia Child of Science” and a real-life Ms. Frizzle, Dr. Macdonald is dedicating her time to making Star Trek and pop culture more inclusive while never losing sight of the science.
Dr. Erin Macdonald sat down with TV Obsessive writer Tina Kakadelis to chat about her work in the Star Trek franchise and the latest short film produced by Spacetime Productions. The transcript has been edited for clarity and space.
TV Obsessive: I have to admit that I’m not a Star Trek aficionado, but my dad is. A couple of these questions have come from him because he was thrilled when he found out that I was doing this.
Erin Macdonald: I love that. That’s fantastic.
When did you first watch Star Trek? Was that what kick started your interest in science?
I didn’t discover Star Trek until I was already in college and majoring in physics. There were a lot of Star Trek fans who are also physics majors, and so I didn’t really have an option not to get into it. If we rewind, what did get me into science was still television. It was watching Dana Scully on screen and wanting to be her. Jurassic Park, Contact, and all of those other shows, they’re the ones that made me want to be a scientist. Star Trek was just the icing on the cake. During my undergrad degree was the night the Kelvin Star Trek film came out. We all went to the midnight release and that was my first introduction to Trekkies. I remember walking into that theater and just going, these are my people, this is it.
My dad did want me to ask something about the Kelvin timeline, but I’ve forgotten what it is. (laughs) My first experience with Star Trek was also in a movie theater. My dad took me to the Chris Pine one. Who would you say is your favorite Star Trek captain?
Kathryn Janeway. Ride or die. In my journey of discovering Star Trek, I didn’t really get around to Voyager for a while. The original series and Next Gen were sort of the big ones. I remember being in grad school and just making my way through the series. And then it was like, there’s like a woman captain. I fell in love with her. I fell in love with Janeway, and she was like a mentor to me. I wanted to be her. I just wanted to follow her to the ends of the galaxy.
The last question that my dad wanted me to ask is what’s your take on the Prime Directive?
(laughs) Great question, I love it. If you’re not aware the Prime Directive is this idea of non-interference. This is where we will get into heated bar arguments over Janeway because she broke the Prime Directive a number of times. It’s a philosophy, right? It’s this idea that, as an advanced civilization, you don’t mess with people who are figuring it out. It takes a certain amount of trial and error to get to an advanced state. If you interfere, you’re going to mess with their development. Philosophically, I think it’s fascinating. We ask that question a lot. Humans are at a certain point technologically, but with the billions of stars just in our own galaxy, why haven’t other aliens come and talk to us? There’s lots of different scientific philosophical explanations for that and one of which is kind of like the Prime Directive. I don’t stop on the street to teach an ant English, you know? You’re letting civilizations do their own thing.
We actually have our own Prime Directive on Earth when it comes to going to other planets and moons. We have two planetary protection agencies, on Earth. There’s two. One is to look for asteroids and protect Earth, but the other one is to make sure we don’t disrupt other planets or moons. For example, Europa is one of Jupiter’s moons. It has a relatively warm saltwater ocean under the crust. The last thing you want to do is introduce bacteria from Earth into that. In a way, that’s our own Prime Directive, right? We want to make sure that we are not interfering with the natural processes of other planets. I hope that was a satisfactory answer.
Absolutely! How did you make the jump from the academia world to becoming the Star Trek science advisor?
A lot of it was just my undying love for TV and movies. When I was still in academia, I used pop culture all the time as references. I think a lot of people struggle in science because they don’t have a visual reference point for the stuff that we’re talking about, but you can use TV and movies to help. Even bad examples you can still use as a reason to say like, this is why it wouldn’t look like this or this is what’s wrong with it. I’ve always used pop culture in teaching. When I left academia, I just missed teaching so much. It’s just something I loved. I was going to pop conventions like DragonCon and local comic cons to give talks on the science of Star Trek or the science in Mass Effect and that sort of thing. That’s what led me to meet a lot of people in Hollywood. I would meet an actor at different conventions three times in one year and they’d be like, I have a buddy who’s working on a TV pilot and you should talk to them. I think where the skills came in was a lot of science communication and being a fan and a consumer of media. Whatever wacky, weird thing a writer wants to do, I’m not going to rain on their parade. Like, let’s do it.
Your methods of teaching are probably very different in the classroom because you have people there who have specifically chosen this course in a higher level education setting, whereas the average TV viewer is probably not signing up for a science lesson. What are the strengths and weaknesses of both forms of teaching? How do you kind of balance entertainment and learning in both of them?
Brilliant. It’s tough. There’s the strengths and weaknesses in an academic setting because, like you said, you have people who have passed some sort of qualification to get into that classroom. However, teaching astronomy 101 is a big challenge because there’s a heck of a lot of students in there who just need a science credit and they’re real grumpy that you’re making them do math. They just wanted to get stoned and look at the stars. The challenge was to try to engage them. At a convention, a lot of those folks won’t have a science background, but they are choosing to spend an hour listening to a scientist. They are very much volunteering to be there. In that sense, I might have to explain things in a different way, not assuming any background knowledge, but I don’t have to get their attention. They are there fully, electively being there which makes a big difference.
My dad worked for NASA for 30 years and whenever I go see a movie with him, his biggest complaint is always about when the science isn’t accurate. How do you balance that line of a writer having a really cool concept, but our science isn’t there yet to make that explanation possible? How do you work through that with the writers?
There’s a few approaches. I listen to heavy metal music and when you meet a fellow heavy metal fan, your next question is, well, what kind of heavy metal? I feel like science fiction is the same way, right? There’s a broad spectrum between science and fiction. Star Wars and The Expanse are not the same and you can’t say that it’s the same level of science. As a science advisor, I have to figure out where they’re landing on that spectrum. Once you’re in the project and you’ve figured out the right level of science, there still are times where you have to do a trade off. The biggest lesson for me is that there’s a hierarchy: Story, character, and then science. If those are in conflict at any time, the other ones have to come out on top.
The best example I can give is The Martian, which is like a pretty science grounded film and story, but the inciting incident of a storm blowing over a satellite dish that impales Mark Watney (Matt Damon) is scientifically, completely inaccurate. There are storms on Mars, but there’s no air pressure to actually blow anything over. Without that, though, you don’t have a story. Those are the trade-offs that we’re making on a regular basis. I just tell myself like, as long as I flag it and then we decide not to go for it, it’s fine. I’ll be able to sleep at night.
Science and the humanities are seen as opposing forces that rarely get to blend, but Star Trek has always consistently been at the forefront of social issues even going back to the beginning of the series. How do you see social issues impacting scientific research and how does that same research impact social beliefs through pop culture?
Awesome. Star Trek has been around since 1966, almost 60 years now, and it has two core legacies that I think it takes very seriously. It’s exactly the two things that you mentioned; the science and the socially progressive ideals of the series. If Star Trek has to make a decision one way or the other, they will choose those core beliefs because that is the legacy of Star Trek. Having a non-binary character on the screen, having a gay couple, having a black woman as the captain, all of those are things where it’s like if there’s ever any executives who are getting nervous about including those characters, it always goes back to this is Star Trek. Star Trek has always pushed the envelope and I think it’s a feedback loop. Because it’s been around for so long and it’s continually pushed the envelope in science and social issues, you have people who are raised on it that then go on to push for those ideals in real life.
Star Trek keeps up to date and continues having those conversations and sometimes that is hard for people. You have people who had no problem with an interracial kiss suddenly faced with someone who’s a non-binary character. That might be new and different to them, but Star Trek is not going to shy away from having that. I’m just so incredibly proud of the franchise for continuing that legacy.
That’s a great segue to your Spacetime Productions. You’re specifically exploring the world of genre work. What is it about science fiction, or other genres that aren’t set in the real world, that paves the way for inclusivity?
Science fiction, whether it’s through metaphor or through alternate worlds, has often been a draw for people from marginalized communities because they’re able to see themselves in an environment that they don’t get to see themselves in now. Or, through metaphor, maybe see themselves represented on screen. But for me, what I love is being able to tell specifically LGBTQ stories in the sci-fi space where it’s not metaphor. Where it is very literal. The last film that we did that just came out is called Identiteaze by Jessie Earl (Jessie Gender on YouTube), where it is quite literally choosing your gender identity in a virtual world. I’m working with people at all different stages of expertise, but I love giving opportunities to people who are also that same demographic that don’t normally get represented behind the scenes. Seeing their excitement in being able to tell these stories on screen professionally made with big actors with a decent budget is fantastic. Also, we focus on creating a very inclusive set. It’s not just the story that we’re telling, but we have a number of trans gaffers or lighting technicians. People are working behind the scenes and they get to feel represented on set as well. That’s a mission that I’m incredibly passionate about. The more projects I’m able to create that with environment, makes me happy.
I loved looking through the the Identiteaze website and seeing all of the pronouns for everyone involved. I thought that was fantastic.
We had pronoun pins on set and I remember people were so excited because we had like he/they and she/they pronouns in addition to they/them. People were like, whoa, finally, can I have eight of these?!
What do you look for when you are sorting through projects for Spacetime Productions? What jumps out to you?
For me, it’s it’s the passion. It’s projects that people have been wanting to tell and just haven’t had that opportunity to yet. At the beginning of making these short films, it was a conversation of like, no, but like we’re smart people, why are we all sitting around waiting for the phone to ring? We’ve done everything right in the industry. We are right where we need to be to progress our career, and we’re waiting for people to give us that chance. Let’s take back some of that ownership and it really is just a matter of working with people that I trust.
Jessie and I have been Internet friends for a long time, and I was telling her about this film that I was making. She was like, my God, I have a project I’ve wanted to make forever. When the opportunity comes up and the right conversations start happening, just taking ownership and going like, yeah, let’s do it, why not?
So much of your life is science. What do you do in your spare time? What kind of pop culture do you like that’s not science or might be surprising?
I love it. I have an avid video game player. I am a cozy hobbit in my soul. Plenty of Stardew Valley. I’m playing Cozy Grove right now. I also bake. The Great British Bake Off continues to be my jam. If there’s any show that I could recite every single episode from, it’s actually Frasier. I’ve seen every episode many, many times. My little homesickness package contains baking ingredients and Frasier.
Thank you so much for your time, Erin, and have a great time at Comic-Con!
Thank you so much. It was great chatting with you!
